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Thread: CAD Trion 7000 Ribbon

  1. #1
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    Default CAD Trion 7000 Ribbon

    Well, since John Mark Painter mentioned it already I may as well reveal my first impressions about this mic.



    George Cumbee of Classic got a pair of these to try and I took about 30 minutes testing them out. No instruments, just my voice speaking and listening in headphones. First impression was good.

    1) Sensitivity is about the same as the R92, which means lower than an R84. We set up both mics side by side with identical gain settings on two X73 modules, both flat.

    2) Polarity is correct. That's nice, but unusual among Chinese mics I've tried.

    3) The proximity effect is more pronounced than the R92 (which is designed for minimized proximity effect).

    4) The two sides of the mic sound drastically different. The front is full and the HF pattern is fairly directional with a roll off noticeably starting by about 45º off axis. The back, on the other hand, has less low end and more top end and the pattern (regardless of what the specs will show you) is drastically wider. Good/bad? Depends on what you've got behind the mic, I guess.

    5) The shockmount looks very well made, almost like the mid-70s Neumanns. It doesn't look like a cheap Chinese mount. Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well. Well, let me elaborate on that. It does keep stand-borne vibrations away from the mic, BUT it has its own resonant frequency in the upper 100/lower 200 Hz range. So if you tap the stand, while holding the mic, it won't ring. But if you tap the shockmount while securing the stand with your hand, it will sound like "do-ing" and ring for a few seconds. A little detective work revealed that the problem is in the equal lengths of the fabric-covered rubbers that hold the mic. The top and bottom are each held on four spider arms and each attaches to four more hooks on the part where the mic attaches. So imagine two four-pointed stars with equal length sides and all are the same length. It's like having a guitar with 16 strings all tuned to the same note. When you bump it, you're going to hear what? The resonant frequency of all the strings. Exactly what is happening here. It's pronounced enough that I suspect the mic (in that frequency range) would sound totally different in the shockmount than out of it. However, it can be resolved by putting dampers on the rubbers, like using your fingers to hold them still, like muting the strings on a guitar. Of course, that's not very conducive to creativity for a singer so you might want to have your second engineer hold them.

    Seriously, this is an issue that must be addressed.

    Unless it's a [Ah-Ha! moment] clever new design feature. The tunable shock mount, where you can vary the resonance to help out the mic's inherent frequency response. (If anyone actually makes one of these, I want a cut. My idea.) Actually, now that I think about it, that couldn't be what they were shooting for because it's not tunable. It's always at the same frequency. So it's a beautiful shock mount that can act like a drone. Great for medieval music, if you're cutting in that key.

    6) It's a dual-ribbon design and you can see the ribbons separated, sharing a central pole piece (if looks don't deceive--I didn't actually open it up). I was concerned about what this offset would do at the frequencies where the wavelength arrival between the ribbons might be at odd ratios (1:1.5) whereby nulling like a comb filter at those frequencies. However, after listening, I didn't notice any problems. Nor did I notice any benefit, though some suggested it might be to boost level output. I hope that's not the case since its output is as low as one of the lowest output ribbons on the market, the R92.

    7) It comes in a cute box. It looks like a snow cone on a short cylindrical tube.

    8) These mics are cheap, at around $279, and although I didn't put it directly against an RSM-2 (Nady), I think I'd be inclined to recommend it over one of those. But don't rely on that impression until I get to set it up side by side with one and decide for sure.

    9) Overall a nice package at a really decent price.

    Addendum: With the recent history of Nady's RSM-2 and the flood of identical mics that hit the market shortly after it was introduced, just know that CAD's import monopoly on this Ningbo/Alctron-produced mic may be short-lived and identical copies may flood the market soon and at lower prices. I'm not saying it will happen, but that it might.

    More info as I'm able to collect it.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio Inc.

    Leaders come and leaders go. Fortunes come and fortunes go. Countries come and countries go.
    Only God remains forever and, fear not, he is still in control.

  2. #2
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    Lynn...how was the over all build compared to the group mics? Things like XLR connect and construction of the grill/screen/shield. In the photo it's looks much cleaner.
    Dennis Jones
    Technical Director
    WNCW-FM www.wncw.org
    3D Audio V.I.P.

  3. #3
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    Nicely done. Definitely a step up from the first Nady.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio Inc.

    Leaders come and leaders go. Fortunes come and fortunes go. Countries come and countries go.
    Only God remains forever and, fear not, he is still in control.

  4. #4
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    Yep..the Shockmount is goofy.
    You have to be careful not to pull the bands loose when removing it from the case. Those metal cases are cute and nice but I think they are overkill. Now I just have to store them somewhere as I will never put these away

    The Off-Axis rejection has come in handy for me as I have a pair of them on Toms and they are very close to Cymbals.

    They can also be aimed more accurately for fine tuning (like a Dynamic mic) on a GTR Amp than an AEA 84 can.
    The Flip side is that the AEA promotes careless Mic placement as it doesn't change as much with small movements but allows you to work faster.

  5. #5
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    I'd like to mention that anyone wanting to get one of these ribbons OR the other new Trion mics (6000, 8000) from CAD should give George Cumbee a call. He's a frequent poster here, owner of Classic Recording and a great guy. He's been showing these off to Nashville folks in the past two weeks and has been getting an incredible response. I think he placed an order for 44 mics just yesterday.

    So give him a call if you want one. 615-370-3790. Tell him Lynn sent you.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio Inc.

    Leaders come and leaders go. Fortunes come and fortunes go. Countries come and countries go.
    Only God remains forever and, fear not, he is still in control.

  6. #6
    PookyNR is offline 3D VIP 2005, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10
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    I wonder if he'd ship to Canada.........
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan - 2010 3D VIP Member

  7. #7
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    Only one way to find out. 615-370-3790.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio Inc.

    Leaders come and leaders go. Fortunes come and fortunes go. Countries come and countries go.
    Only God remains forever and, fear not, he is still in control.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Lynn....George is a 1st class guy. Had a wonderful chat this afternoon.
    Dennis Jones
    Technical Director
    WNCW-FM www.wncw.org
    3D Audio V.I.P.

  9. #9
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    Default CAD Trion 7000 Ribbon

    Lynn,

    Thank you for your evaluation of our ribbon mic.

    I want to remind members of this group to please beware of comparing front-to-back of a figure-of-eight microphone while simultaneously speaking into it and listening with headphones. This can be misleading because the front and back lobes are out of phase with each other.
    This leads to different wave cancellations in the head from the addition of the direct sound by bone conduction and the indirect sound through the headphones. This can falsely make the front and back sound very different.
    The Trion 7000 has minor differences between front and back, mostly in the 8-15KHz region. This difference will be reduced in the next production run.
    When checking a figure-of-eight this way, it's a good idea to hand the mic to a friend to do the talking.

    I also want to clarify that Ningbo Alctron does not make our microphones or supply us with microphones. Ningbo Alctron snagged photos of our Trion mics off of the web, "photo shopped" their logo on them and put the photos in their catalog and on their site in an attempt to lure business partners. This has lead to rumors associating them with us. In the recent past we also caught them advertising an old photo of our old Astatic harmonica mic. Another photo snagged off of the web (probably e-bay).

    Lynn, thank you for the opportunity to comment.

    Sincerely,

    Kelly Statham
    Vice President of Engineering
    CAD Professional Microphones
    Astatic Commercial Audio Products
    (440)349-4900 x 235
    6573-I Cochran Rd.
    Solon, Ohio 44139
    USA
    www.cadmics.com
    www.astaticinstalled.com

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Jones View Post
    Thanks Lynn....George is a 1st class guy. Had a wonderful chat this afternoon.
    Yea, he is. I think his order is up to about 60 mics now.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio Inc.

    Leaders come and leaders go. Fortunes come and fortunes go. Countries come and countries go.
    Only God remains forever and, fear not, he is still in control.

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