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Thread: INSANITY: USA tax grab in Canada

  1. #11
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    I know that there are treaties against double taxation between many countries.
    In several countries there are treaties against double taxation to avoid that the same guy pays the same tax both in the country where he is born and in the country where he lives and works. I don't know if there are a treaty against double taxation between USA and Canada for your case, but maybe if there is one, it might be important (maybe) to help you.




    Important: I am not a tax lawyer so the things I have written herein could be false.

  2. #12
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    The most disturbing aspect is, that though you were born in the US, you left as a child, never had a SS#, and have become a legal citizen of another country, and yet the US still feels it has a right to reach into your pocket. Amazing. Talk about taxation without representation. You can't vote in the US, you will not be receiving any SS retirement, you would not qualify for any welfare benefits, and you could not even legally work in the US absent a work Visa. This should be an easy fight. What on Earth would you be paying taxes for?

    BTW, I think all you have to do to renounce US citizenship is to pledge your allegiance to the army of a foreign country. Send Eric Holder a picture of yourself in a Canadian Mounted outfit...
    Todd Robbins
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by animix View Post
    Well........when over half the citizens here don't pay any taxes at all and still receive refund checks from those who do, you gotta find more sources of income somewhere.
    So what I hear so you saying is that I'm doing this all backwards. I should be taking rather than giving...

    Hmm.....

    Thanks, Doug, for the idea.
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireline View Post
    Nathan, if you don't have a SSN, then what's the problem? That's how they track and tax income here as you know. DISCLAIMER - NOT A TAX LAWYER (but I need one)

    As for taxing income made my citizens while living overseas, this is not really anything new. Even 28 yrs go when gigging on the German club circuits while still on active duty, I was supposed to report income from those...
    They are cracking down on people just like me. Left when they were young, never had an SSN, etc. No matter, they want my money, and potentially lots of it.

    I'd have no problem if the Canadian government were to tax me when I work out of country (or while I have temporary residence elsewhere) as I continue to draw on Canadian resources in one way or another, no matter how minute. With the USA, however, I'm basically a tourist when I come home to visit family and/or take in events.

    And your right (as per your comment in a later post), I am a dual citizen. Born in the US, gained Canadian citizenship in the 90s before I got married. Effectively, I'm an active Canadian. Even though I'm a US citizen by birth and family heritage, with the USA, I'm not an active American - a tourist at best, drawing on no other resources than another tourist.

    I just think it's silly that I'm being punished for the fact that I was born in the USA.
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Yeah, but he's a Canadian citizen. You would think that once you declare citizenship elsewhere (meaning, Hello I live here permanently now!) the US would have no claim to any taxes from that individual. I don't understand how they can do this.
    According to US tax law, taxation is based on citizenship, not on residency.

    SO, once you're born in the USA, you owe them taxes for life - unless you renounce your citizenship.

    But of course, they won't allow you to renounce your citizenship unless your taxes are paid up....
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by PPA View Post
    I know that there are treaties against double taxation between many countries.
    In several countries there are treaties against double taxation to avoid that the same guy pays the same tax both in the country where he is born and in the country where he lives and works. I don't know if there are a treaty against double taxation between USA and Canada for your case, but maybe if there is one, it might be important (maybe) to help you.
    There is one, and it will help a lot. The more I research it, I'll pay a lot less tax than I thought. The problem is, however, that I have to hire a lawyer who specializes in cross-boarder taxation. ($$$)

    Speaking of treaties - under FACTA, the US is trying to force Canadian banks to give up information on accounts held by US citizens...
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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    Since there is one treaty against double taxation between USA and Canada I think that at the canadian tax offices know likely the case as yours, specially if there are several/many people in the same your situation. If you have received a notification from USA's tax office probably there are several/many people in the same your situation, I suppose.
    I think that canadian tax office has the interest that you pay your taxes to them not to U.S.. A tax legal is however important, in my opinion.
    Last edited by PPA; 09-25-2011 at 02:31 PM.

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    Nathan, again, without an SSN, how are they supposed to track you, by blood type? Sex appeal factor? (you sweet thang)...

    Seems to me that unless you go around blaring to the world your duality (citizenship, not console) that no one will be the wiser as to your status. I've never been asked citizenship when opening or maintaining any sort of bank accounts here, so the if the Canadian banks are giving that info up, that's something you can address up there in the frozen tundras, right?

    There is something about all of this that smells funny though, namely the burden of proof as to how much is being earned, legal access to your financial records from the government of a place you are not really affiliated with anymore, etc...as for becoming exclusively a Canadian citizen, I'm not really sure you have to have Uncle Sam's approval - again, that just doesn't seem to sound right. People have told country A to shove it in favor of country B for hundreds of years without country A's approval or release from alleged tax liability. That's kind of how the US came to be in the first place. (Irony alert)

    Remember that whatever steps you take are likely permanent...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPA View Post
    Since there is one treaty against double taxation between USA and Canada I think that at the canadian tax offices know likely the case as yours, specially if there are several/many people in the same your situation. If you have received a notification from USA's tax office probably there are several/many people in the same your situation, I suppose.
    I think that canadian tax office has the interest that you pay your taxes to them not to U.S.. A tax legal is however important, in my opinion.
    You are correct. There are quite a number of people in my same position, which is why the Canadian Minister of Finance has been politely telling US officials to buzz off. We'll see how this shakes out and if the US backs off of (IMHO) innocent folks.
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireline View Post
    Nathan, again, without an SSN, how are they supposed to track you, by blood type? Sex appeal factor? (you sweet thang)...

    Seems to me that unless you go around blaring to the world your duality (citizenship, not console) that no one will be the wiser as to your status. I've never been asked citizenship when opening or maintaining any sort of bank accounts here, so the if the Canadian banks are giving that info up, that's something you can address up there in the frozen tundras, right?

    There is something about all of this that smells funny though, namely the burden of proof as to how much is being earned, legal access to your financial records from the government of a place you are not really affiliated with anymore, etc...as for becoming exclusively a Canadian citizen, I'm not really sure you have to have Uncle Sam's approval - again, that just doesn't seem to sound right. People have told country A to shove it in favor of country B for hundreds of years without country A's approval or release from alleged tax liability. That's kind of how the US came to be in the first place. (Irony alert)

    Remember that whatever steps you take are likely permanent...
    Ken, I won't disagree with you. I am quite sexy. Guilty as charged. That alone would likely be enough to attract the attention of governments.

    I was just starting the process to get both a SSN and US passport, anticipating some possible opportunities down south. This has now come to a screeching halt. I believe you're right. For the most part, if I remain off the grid, it shouldn't be a problem. However, there have been two published reports of people 'under the radar' getting stopped and questioned at the boarder and being refused entry due to the tax issue. I have 2 more trips down south planned this year, but I don't anticipate this rare occurrence catching up with me.

    The Canadian banking system is quite bit more 'secure' (shall we say), so quite a bit more personal info is obtained before various accounts can be opened. It certainly is on financial record that I am an American citizen.

    I'm not wanting to renounce my US citizenship. Aside from the ease of visits, having all but my immediate family in the USA I still feel a significant connection to the land of my family orgin. Renunciation would also be especially pointless cause they won't legally recognize that renunciation without first paying the aforementioned tax bill.
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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