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Thread: Is it time? Is the world ready for SON OF DAWSUM? DAWSUM Pt. II?

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    Default Is it time? Is the world ready for SON OF DAWSUM? DAWSUM Pt. II?

    I was thinking today about digital summing. Is that even still an issue? All that discussion we had in the first decade of this century about mixers, summing, dithering, etc., does anyone care anymore?

    Now that people are making records on their cellphones, does anyone wonder about which platform sounds better than another? Which digital mixer?

    I'm just wondering out loud.

    In these days of streaming, I'm shocked at how many broadcasters can't even tell (or maybe just don't care) the difference between MONO and STEREO. Wow.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio

    Making beautiful music SEEM easy since 1979.

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    For those who may not know to what I am referring:

    http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/forumd...SUM-Comparison
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio

    Making beautiful music SEEM easy since 1979.

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    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Todd Robbins
    TX3 Productions, Inc.
    www.toddro.com

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    Is it still an issue? The only thing I could see that would be new would be summing at the different sample rates?

    Maybe a summing comparison between the various platforms at the higher rates only?
    Ken Morgan
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    Scott Fraser is offline Gold Club Member (1000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3daudioinc View Post
    does anyone care anymore?
    Perhaps the needed question is: would anybody change their method of working if presented with evidence revealing their current methodology to be sonically inferior?

    I doubt it. I think everybody has pretty well figured how they want to go about making records.

    SF

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    I'm not sure, Scott. I think most of us have settled on making records within the confines of our financial means. Accepting and using what we have now vs how we would go about it under much different financial circumstances for the individuals and the industry would likely be vastly different. This is why these kinds of tests exist in the 1st place, I believe.
    Ken Morgan
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    If you're feeling adventurous... maybe go a bit beyond simple summing in DSII. WHat I mean by that is the general argument that rages on that all daws sound the same is based on simple summing, but we actually don't mix with simple summing. We use FX and complex automation and sometimes complex bussing.

    Doing the exact same real mix in 7-8 DAWS, with multiple plugs, having them using (of course) their own PDC, along with lots of automation and bussing and plugs that actually can be recreated precisely from A to X... and then printing the reuslt for comparison, would be more of a real world test than I've ever seen.

    I know they all sum basic tracks the same. What I'm not fully convinced of is that they all produce the same audible result in the real world.. with 48 tracks, nested groups, hardware inserts, and all kind of automation running. I mean, do we know that the stereo fleld of DAW x isn't compromised a little compared to Y if you nest multiple busses or if the PDC is a little bit off under a certain load? Not really.

    So.. that would be... unique... and probably tricky to pull off.
    Last edited by Lawrence; 02-16-2012 at 09:48 PM.

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    Scott Fraser is offline Gold Club Member (1000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireline View Post
    I'm not sure, Scott. I think most of us have settled on making records within the confines of our financial means. Accepting and using what we have now vs how we would go about it under much different financial circumstances for the individuals and the industry would likely be vastly different. This is why these kinds of tests exist in the 1st place, I believe.
    If one's financial status is unchanging then none of it really matters, but perhaps the question then should be: would anybody change their method of working after winning untold riches in the lottery if presented with evidence revealing their current methodology to be sonically inferior?

    SF

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    I think if one could afford whatever/close to whatever they wanted, they could discern what they felt was sonically superior. If one feels (choice A) is superior then they use it, regardless of its relative cost to (all other choices) all other things being equal - would you agree? Put another way: if I won the lottery, a Neve would be in here within 60 days.

    That said, I volunteer Lawrence to do all the testing
    Ken Morgan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireline View Post
    That said, I volunteer Lawrence to do all the testing
    I'll pass. -) I was only kinda pointing out that the testing in this regard isn't exactly what I'd call "complete"... just more of a partial snapshot. Probably for good reasons, because it kinda doesn't matter anyway, and it's probably hard to do.

    An easy test would be with something that's 100% compatible. PTLE, PT Native, PTHD, PT HDX. Surely they can load the exact same projects so if a very, very complex 48 track mix using the same mfg software was viewed as "perceptually different" in a blind listen... I'd say the chance that this would be true for other products being compared to it would be likely also.

    It might be interesting but... not my test.

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