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Thread: Audio Technica 5040 vs. SM57 on electric guitar

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Fraser View Post
    I thought I was the only person who didn't quite get the deal about Royers, well as many other ribbons.
    I recently had a composer/producer ask me to put up a Royer on one of the violins in the quartet. We did. It did absolutely nothing for me that my usual compliment of LDC Neumanns didn't do, & I doubt that track will make it to my mix.
    Another producer I work with a lot brings his own Royer 122s & AEA A440, as well as preamps to our classical sessions. I end up double miking with my usual condensers. We have both concluded that after a lot of unbiased comparing that we could easily get the same desirable results mixing from either set of mics. No clear advantage one way or the other.
    Many years ago I bought a guy's mic collection, mainly to get his MD441s, & included in the case was a B & O ribbon, the precursor & inspiration for the Royer. I used it on brass & saxes for a while until I realized that all I ended up doing in mixing was attempting to restore the missing high end, while working really hard to reduce the noise. Much easier to start with a mic that sounds the way you want without having to go through hoops to arrive at a different endpoint.
    So, yeah, not really getting the deal about Royers.
    SF
    I think they got a lot of press and they paid for a lot of endorsements from some major big-name players in the game, so everyone thought they were supposed to put them up and be "wowed". I have found them to be miserably deficient at reproducing a sound source, with the noted exception above - the SF-24 on overheads is really nice. Anything else I have ever tried them on was a huge thumbs-down... I'm glad to hear I am not alone.

    I did a session with a gtr player hear in Nashvegas one time and he brought his Royer and insisted I use it. I mic'd his cabinet with his Royer, and then included some other mic's form my arsenal. His Royer never once won a "taste-test" as I call them. It was always dead last. It was a big eye-opener for him...
    Last edited by Todd Robbins; 11-25-2012 at 03:21 AM.
    Todd Robbins
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  2. #22
    PookyNR is offline 3D VIP 2005, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, '14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Robbins View Post
    Very rarely will I combine or blend 2 mics - I just don't like the phasing that will inevitably result. Mostly, I am just listening both solo'd and in the track to see which mic will compliment the given sound the best. As I have mentioned before, I have been seeing my newly rebuilt RCA 74b win a large percentage of the time - I love that mic on e/gtrs, but that is about the only thing I love it on... A 57 still wins a lot, and so does a vintage 409, a Beyer m500 (get one, you won't regret it for gtrs), and a Beyer MC201, and a Coles 4038 will sound great on certain sounds too. Also, I have 2 Heil mics (do not know the model #'s, sorry) that sound fantastic!!!

    In fact, the only "combined mic" sound I usually like is to take a 201 and a 57 and put them at right angles to each other like an x/y approach, and then center them right in the center of the cone. Buss them to one track and blend them 50/50 - and listen with one out of phase to make sure you are getting as much cancelation as you can get with one of them flipped as you set your blend. For a rock guitar sound, this will sound HUGE! This tip is on the house. If you win a grammy, thank me on tv...

    Also, am I the only person on the planet who does not like the Royer mics? I try them all the time on e/gtrs and they always, ALWAYS come in dead last or very close to the bottom. I have found them to be very dull, lifeless, and un-exciting in almost every application. The only Royer I like is the sf-24 on drum overheads... obviously, ymmv... everyone else loves them...
    I hear you about the phasing. That's a pain to position them properly. You do use distant / room mic in combo sometimes though, no? For combos, I sometimes like that on acoustic instruments and even E guitar.

    Is it the Heil PR30 or PR35 that you have? Those are getting more popular with the live sound crews. I love those mics! I'm surprised they are not more popular.

    I must admit I have a pair of Royer knock offs that are mod'ed. Not my favourite, but if you EQ them (roll off bottom, add top) they can do OK on some sounds. They combine well with a 57. I've used them on overheads and had some decent results. They're not the worst I've ever heard, but they're rarely the best. I got them on a cheap deal, so I'm not complaining.
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by PookyNR View Post
    I hear you about the phasing. That's a pain to position them properly. You do use distant / room mic in combo sometimes though, no? For combos, I sometimes like that on acoustic instruments and even E guitar.
    Yes, I usually have a choice of 3 distant mics in the offering, a U87, a Langevin LDC (model no.?), and a Coles - but those are just for the room sound / ambience.

    When cutting initial tracks, I like to have my main guitar pass in the room with the drum kit so that the ambience of the guitar combines with the ambience of the drum kit (and bass amp) - makes it sound like a band, which always makes certain sterile producers, session players, and label reps. nervous - "you mean we're going to have the guitar and the bass bleeding into the drum kit????"

    I'd have to look at the Heils to tell you the model nos. I swear the reason one of them is not as popular as it should be is because it looks like a side-address mic, but it is meant to use straight on. I leant it to one guitar player and he came back reporting it sounded like donkey. Later in the tracking session, he asked what mic I was using I told him it was his "favorite" Heil - he went out and looked and said, "oh.... that's how you aim it? I had it sideways...."
    Last edited by Todd Robbins; 11-25-2012 at 06:15 PM.
    Todd Robbins
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Fraser View Post
    I thought I was the only person who didn't quite get the deal about Royers, well as many other ribbons.

    SF
    I like the 121 on fiddle, but that's about it...like Todd, I REALLY dig the 74B on electrics, steel gtr amp, most everything really. I am really a ribbon kinda guy, but not the new wave of them - gimme the old stuff.

    Given my druthers, I would have nothing but 44s 77s, and a couple of U67s, and be 100% happy
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    Scott Fraser is offline Gold Club Member (1000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireline View Post
    I like the 121 on fiddle, but that's about it...like Todd, I REALLY dig the 74B on electrics, steel gtr amp, most everything really. I am really a ribbon kinda guy, but not the new wave of them - gimme the old stuff.
    Given my druthers, I would have nothing but 44s 77s, and a couple of U67s, and be 100% happy
    Would a B & O do anything for you? I'm pretty much over mine.

    SF

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    PookyNR is offline 3D VIP 2005, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, '14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Robbins View Post
    a Langevin LDC (model no.?)
    The CR3A? (Now the CR2001 - a newer body design) I love that mic. I found that it sounded quite good on most everything, and on quite a few things it was clearly a winning choice. I haven't seen one around for a few years.
    Am I the only one without a small type signature?

    Nathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Robbins View Post
    I swear the reason one of them is not as popular as it should be is because it looks like a side-address mic, but it is meant to use straight on. I leant it to one guitar player and he came back reporting it sounded like donkey. Later in the tracking session, he asked what mic I was using I told him it was his "favorite" Heil - he went out and looked and said, "oh.... that's how you aim it? I had it sideways...."
    Likely the PR40. When Bob Heil first loaned me that mic (years ago when it was first released), I told him right up front that it looking like a side address was going to be an issue and he better put some indication ON the mic itself. He dismissed it and thought that would be unnecessary. About two years ago, I saw another PR-40, a more recently issued version, and sure enough, it has two arrows pointing toward the end of the mic, so people will know which way to point it. He should have listened to me the first time.
    Lynn Fuston
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    Lynn would you say that the 5040
    Is your favorite mic you have used for electric guitar cabinets?
    Do you usually just use a mic into the great river for guitars or do you add any processing?

  9. #29
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    Favorite? That's a pretty substantial word. I only used it for a day. The thing that impressed me most was how much *better* it sounded than the 57 I frequently use. Made me want to go back and re-record a bunch of albums. For me, that's saying something.

    There are two things that are surefire indicators to me that I've found something good.

    1) It makes me smile. And I'm not talking about a "Hmmm, that's nice" feeling. I mean a big ol' grin, like "Wow. I just discovered a new favorite food and I can't believe I've lived my whole life without tasting it before."

    2) If my subsequent thought is "Boy, I sure wish I had been using this to record for the past 20 years," that's a tell-tale sign as well.

    I'll tell you which pieces of gear have evoked that response from me. It's a short list.

    1. EMT plate reverb. 1979
    2. Pultec EQ. 1989
    3. Helios console. 1991
    4. Focusrite ISA-110. 1987

    So, favorite? I won't say that. It depends on the guitar player, the cabinet, the song, the part, the guitar, too many variables. But I would say that, if I owned one, it would likely be my starting point at the beginning of the day.

    May be time for a guitar mic shootout. Be watching in Pro Audio Review for a little one I did last week with six USB mics on guitar cabinet. Coming up at the first of the year. I just finished writing the article last Saturday.

    Quote Originally Posted by guitargear View Post
    Lynn would you say that the 5040
    Is your favorite mic you have used for electric guitar cabinets?
    Do you usually just use a mic into the great river for guitars or do you add any processing?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3daudioinc View Post
    Likely the PR40. When Bob Heil first loaned me that mic (years ago when it was first released), I told him right up front that it looking like a side address was going to be an issue and he better put some indication ON the mic itself. He dismissed it and thought that would be unnecessary. About two years ago, I saw another PR-40, a more recently issued version, and sure enough, it has two arrows pointing toward the end of the mic, so people will know which way to point it. He should have listened to me the first time.
    Haha! That's hilarious! Mine doesn't have the arrows. I know for a fact that many people used that mic side-addressed and thought it sucked donkey because of that. Ya live & learn...
    Todd Robbins
    TX3 Productions, Inc.
    www.toddro.com

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