Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 31

Thread: Spotify royalties: Wow.

  1. #21
    mfassett is offline Gold Club Member (1000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    bay area, California
    Posts
    1,053

    Default

    I think there is major difference when it comes to spotify vs. your local broadcast radio station. With spotify, you choose the song and artist you want to hear... so someone is getting the equivalent of purchasing the song without having to do so. There is nothing like that on the radio.

    There is less difference when it comes to online radio vs. terrestrial radio IMHO. You can narrowcast more on the web, that is true... target an audience. But in either case you are not selecting specific artists and songs to hear, those are being chosen for you.

    Pandora is in between, but their rules make it more like radio IMHO since you are unable to pick specific songs.

  2. #22
    Scott Fraser is offline Gold Club Member (1000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,347

    Default

    Regardless of whether online streaming is deemed to be like or unlike radio broadcasting, the real question to ask is whether artists & composers are being cheated out of revenues that they should be able to partake in, based on a notion of fairness, i.e. an exchange of value for value where both parties profit? Are the streaming companies raking in loads of dough based on the use of an item of value, i.e. a song, for which they don't own performance rights, & for which they are not paying a fair use fee? I have no idea, I'm just posing the question. Does Spotify & its ilk make money, or is this currently just an idea which some web tech nerds hope will pay off some time eventually? As with any new technology, probably many more questions than answers at this point.

    SF

  3. #23
    Bill@WelcomeHomeStudios's Avatar
    Bill@WelcomeHomeStudios is offline 3D VIP 2004, '05, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    5,065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Robbins View Post
    ...They also understand the difference between someone buying their record in a record store and someone downloading their record on iTunes, so grasping the difference between radio and streaming is extremely easy, and extremely common...
    I never mentioned downloading, and it is indeed a different and much more thorny issue. Just as I'm speaking generically about streaming, rather than just Pandora or Spotify. And from the artists protection point of view, it makes no difference how much money an entity makes or does not make... to use an artists work should require payment to that artist.
    Bill Park
    Welcome Home Studios

    The elites have squandered the country's wealth on two of the costliest and most useless wars in American history while blithely pretending that the environmental crisis doesn't exist. We no longer have any mechanisms within the formal structures of power that will protect or advance our rights.
    (Chris Hedges)


    Showbusiness. We're all here because we're not all there.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    14,647

    Default

    So which of these entities is using artsts' works and not paying for the usage?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    The Wolverine State
    Posts
    7,157

    Default

    Seems to me, granted, as a layman who can't say he actually has a full grasp of the complexity of it all... at a very basic common sense "what appears to be taking place anyway" level...

    Artists see these companies posting XXX amount of gross revenues and simply don't think they're getting a big enough share. The problem with that kind of thinking is pretty obvious to me, that there are literally thousands if not millions of Artists and the model can't even (apparently?) fully support itself already... they're already losing money. If they gave every artist a bigger share, they'd lose even more money?

    So... the only logical thing to do is to just let the thing shut down completely because it's a relative money pit, or just let it run as it is and take (or optionally not contractually agree to take?) whatever you can get from it. If the Spotifys of the world can't turn a profit they'll eventually shut down.

    You can't even get 0.1% from nothing.

    I do think there is plenty of opportunity there for actual graft or theft (where there's lots of cash in big business, there's always some theft, count on it ), where some artists actually may not be getting everything they're due. I just have no conception of how what they think they're due in general ('much more money') would allow the model to actually survive, and if it can't, it all becomes irrelevant.

    It all comes down to the general idea of some execs there getting a hefty salary while the Artists whose music they're streaming are financially struggling. The model simply can't - as far as I can see - even survive with that kind of assumptive "fair equity" balance.
    Last edited by Lawrence; 11-26-2012 at 09:30 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    14,647

    Default

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogo...venting-radio/

    http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2012/...confusion.html

    The second link (from hypebot.com) is from a guy in Nashville who knows his stuff... I highly recommend it. Sorry I cannot get it to post as a link on mobile device for some reason..
    Last edited by Todd Robbins; 11-27-2012 at 12:15 AM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    The Wolverine State
    Posts
    7,157

    Default

    If the second link's information is factual, and it appears to be, it seems to make all the complaining and disinformation nothing more than a general "We think we should be getting paid more... ", a quite typical feeling that likely exists in almost every real job known to man since Adam paid a guy to keep a close eye on Eve.

    The raw Pandora math as I see it...

    If you're paying out 70% of your revenues to artists and publishers, that literally means that to turn any profit at all, your other expenses (paying for bandwith, salaries, infrastructure, etc, etc, ) can never exceed 30% of revenues. Or, you have to get considerable revenue from elsewhere like advertising. I'm no MBA but that doesn't sound like a sustainable model to me. Since they're losing money by the bucket load, I would have to guess that their expenses are well over 30% of their revenues.
    Last edited by Lawrence; 11-26-2012 at 10:09 PM.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    14,647

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
    If the second link's information is factual, and it appears to be, it seems to make all the complaining and disinformation nothing more than a general "We think we should be getting paid more... ", a quite typical feeling that likely exists in almost every real job known to man since Adam paid a guy to keep a close eye on Eve.

    The raw Pandora math as I see it...

    If you're paying out 70% of your revenues to artists and publishers, that literally means that to turn any profit at all, your other expenses (paying for bandwith, salaries, infrastructure, etc, etc, ) can never exceed 30% of revenues. Or, you have to get considerable revenue from elsewhere like advertising. I'm no MBA but that doesn't sound like a sustainable model to me. Since they're losing money by the bucket load, I would have to guess that their expenses are well over 30% of their revenues.
    If the numbers in David Macias' article are not factual, then I would love to see the figures someone else is working from...

    In terms of revenue, and while everyone is wanting to equate internet streaming with FM Radio, let's look at advertising dollars. Do you guys think advertisers pay the same rate for an ad on Spotify/Pandora that they would pay for the exact ad to run on a major market FM Radio station? And if the rate is not the same, then why not???

    Hmmmm....
    Last edited by Todd Robbins; 11-27-2012 at 12:16 AM.
    Todd Robbins
    TX3 Productions, Inc.
    www.toddro.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Durango, CO
    Posts
    9,487

    Default

    Hmmmm......letsee......we need to reduce that $39.00 by 85%.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2239458.html

    I fired off an e-mail to their support site clearly stating that if this happens, I will cancel my subscription and this is what I got in reply......

    Thanks so much for writing in. You can find out more information to help navigate the Fair Net Radio Bill by visiting the following pages:

    - Here's a video message from Tim Westergren, founder of Pandora Internet Radio:

    http://www.pandora.com/fairnetradio

    On this page you can also find FAQ's, information on how to contact your Representative and Senators and links to show your support on Twitter and Facebook.

    You can read the full text of the bill, along with a summary, by visiting:

    http://www.wyden.senate.gov/the-inte...o-fairness-act

    Your support means a lot, as passage of this bill will greatly help Pandora continue to provide you with the music you love.

    Thanks again for writing us -- it really means a lot that you care enough to speak up.
    Best wishes,
    Star

    Listener Advocate
    PANDORA® internet radio
    Need help? http://help.pandora.com
    Your support means a lot, as passage of this bill will greatly help Pandora continue to provide you with the music you love. ??????? Blood was shooting out of my eyes.
    Doug Joyce
    Animix Productions

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN, USA
    Posts
    27,246

    Default

    Form letter. It'll go right to the circular file, er, drive.;-)
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio

    Making beautiful music SEEM easy since 1979.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Is Spotify legit?
    By 3daudioinc in forum The Old Yellow Board
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 02-06-2012, 05:23 AM
  2. Spotify
    By Todd Robbins in forum The Old Yellow Board
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-22-2011, 02:48 AM
  3. Ringtone Royalties
    By Lawrence in forum The Old Yellow Board
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-27-2009, 06:38 PM
  4. How Will They Figure Out Royalties for This?
    By Wireline in forum The Old Yellow Board
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-01-2008, 01:46 PM
  5. OT.. Anybody here getting royalties?
    By GZsound in forum Microphones and Preamps
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 04-04-2006, 10:21 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •