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Thread: Fascism is on the march today in America

  1. #1
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    Fascism is on the march today in America

    Today I was getting a yearly checkup and happened to pick up a magazine in the waiting room. It was a nicely designed catalogue of mainly German uniforms and WWII paraphernalia - uniforms, helmuts, knives guns, banderas etc! Chilling.

    Every once in a while while surfing I land on a radical website, and I stare in disbelief at truly wicked racist rhetoric. Tonight the same thing happened. Here is what I found. Freaked me out [read to the end].


    "Fascism is on the march today in America. Millionaires are marching to the tune. It will come in this country unless a strong defense is set up by all liberal and progressive forces... A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government, and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. Aboard ship a prominent executive of one of America's largest financial corporations told me point blank that if the progressive trend of the Roosevelt administration continued, he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism to America."

    former U.S. ambassador to Germany William Dodd in 1938
    Mark Kramer
    www.thejazzmall.com


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  2. #2
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    Originally posted by Mark Kramer:
    <STRONG> Freaked me out [read to the end].


    "Fascism is on the march today in America. Millionaires are marching to the tune. It will come in this country unless a strong defense is set up by all liberal and progressive forces... A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government, and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. Aboard ship a prominent executive of one of America's largest financial corporations told me point blank that if the progressive trend of the Roosevelt administration continued, he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism to America."

    former U.S. ambassador to Germany William Dodd in 1938</STRONG>
    So what freaked you out? The fact that they succeeded, or that it's been going on for at least 67 years?
    Dick
    Dick Cox

  3. #3
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    Thanks for responding Dick. I just tested the board to see if politics were still in vogue.

    I guess the main thing that freaked me out was the openness of Dodd in 1938. That wasn't particularly an open time. There were phenomenal business opportunities to be had with foreign fascist players in WWII.

    Roosevelt was quite strong then as far as I can tell. Since then there has been a balance between capitalism and collectivism over the past 67 years in the USA.

    I do not pretend to understand it all, but as best as I can see there are two ends of the spectrum (duh!): Everytime capitalism is put on a pedestal, I see the logical unopposed extreme: a group of gangsters reporting to a fascist leader who runs the show. In an ideal form Capitalism respects the rights of the individual. Though the extremists rarely admit it, Capitalism unopposed morphs insidiously into STATISM (e.g., socialism, nazism (national socialism), theocracy, [pure] democracy, communism, fascism, tribalism, etc..) On the other hand the extreme of democracy is communism, with all wealth held in common by the working class. It is brutal and no good. Socialism also doesn’t seem too cool. When I was in Sweden recently, I was shocked at how much they were being taxed. Yet, they still had to ante up for private health care if they didn’t want to wait a few months for an important medical appointment.

    As I said in a previous post, I love America because over the years it has allowed for wide but orderly swings of the ideological pendulum between Left and right. I do not believe we’ve had 67 years of fascism. Far from it. However, now I believe we Americans, through the weak mandate to the Bush dynasty, are attempting to protect our energy sources, as well as our super power status in the world But we need to be very careful not to let our RIGHT become “fascists in sheep’s clothing.”

    The rest of the world sees this more clearly than many Americans do. I hope that an intelligent counterforce of AMERICANS can muster a civilized but effective opposition to the current ruling class in the USA. To be clear, I want to see a pro-American force win power in America, but one with a little more social, global, and environmental conscience than the current "mission accomplished" John Wayne. He did his thing, we needed it at the time. But his credibility is on thin ice in the world. I don;t think Dr. Condy can repair the issues.

    To be clear, I believe it is the controlled tug of war between protangonists and antagonists which makes America so great. But that is in a bit in jeopardy now, and it makes me nervous.

    I think the “Michael Moores” are a necessary ingredient in the stew of American life. However, the day that his ilk takes control, this country will fall fast to all dogs. I think we currently need a mean and lean version of Michael Moore with more teeth than blubber.

    The funny thing is that the Al Sharpton’s of the world probably could manage the international gangster street politics of energy and oil better than the naïve bleeding hearts such as Greenpeace Gore, Ketchup Kerry or HEW Hillary Clinton. Don;t get me wrong: I think they are well-intentioned people. Aside from the pathologically ambitious Hillary, I like their temperament. It is just that they seem so royally naïve. Basically, the Democrats need someone with the street smarts of Sharpton, the real Rhodes scholarly smarts of Clinton (Bill), the caustic analyses of a Nader, and the goodie two shoes quality of a Gore to win. But they will have to lie much better about religiously charged issues.

    We in America, like all societies, need a balance. However, it is my opinion that France, Germany, China, Russia, and Iran have to eat too. We and Saudi Arabia are going to have to cut them in to some heavy duty action at some point. We are running out of troops as a means to resolve the balance of power near oil wells.

    And the way that the global PR machine is going, the USA is being effectively painted as a rapacious society. There is plenty of evidence to show that that is simply nbot true. However, the perception is everything.

    Currently we are a bit off. Flipping through cable news channels tells the story pretty well.


    Regards,
    Mark

    P.S. I only recently became interested in politics. May it be a short-lived interest.
    Mark Kramer
    www.thejazzmall.com


    formula to live by
    _______________________________________
    I am not sure I am really back. It just seems that I've passed through a wormhole.

  4. #4
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    I'm afraid you lost me. So are you saying that a small group of businessmen have been conspiring to create a fascist form of government in the United States? That does not make sense to me. Unless you have a different definition of fascism than I find at Dictionary.com, a government that violently supresses opposition to itself and is run by a dictator would not create a very business-friendly environment.
    In any event, it is my opinion that any government that usurps individual rights is fundamentally flawed. As far as I know, the form of government we have here in the United States allows more inidividual freedom than any other on earth. But it is FAR from perfect.
    I agree with you that the eternal conflict between the right and the left is heathly. I especially liked the Reagan and Clinton administrations where we had a president of one party and a congress controlled by the other. Gridlock is good. Not as much damage can be done when the executive and legislative branches don't get along.
    How come I can take my yorkie into Neiman Marcus but I can't take her into Walmart?

  5. #5
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    Hi,

    It is hard to tell for sure whether there is a systematic conspiracy. I for one am not a conspiracy theorist. If it is a conspiracy,then the logistics are at the level of an Einsteinian-Machiavellian intellect.

    But I would say with regard to oil, weapons, and contracts related to those, there would be a natural tendency for a small number of corporations to attempt to compete and consolidate those really really huge jobs.
    To make matters a little stickier, the jobs may be outsourced. So the guy living out in the middle of nowhere with 6 kids might really get screwed.

    One of the things that intrigues me is how fascism and corporatism are often linked. Most people do not think about this much, or if they do they minimize it. But it is this potential linkage which could attract our attention a litle more in America in my view. I believe that the flow away from democracy, when it occurs, is insideous.

    And yes I believe that there is a small group of very BIG business people who are connected with specialized political think tanks; these have conflicts of interest, and could eventuially upset our balance if not benevolently monitored. After all this is why we have antitrust laws and other laws on the books to stop us from being hijacked.

    In times of war, the rules seem to be bent too. The irony is that if we admit we are addicted to oil and its products (e.g., plastics etc. )then we need very sharp business people to interact with our governemnt and oil source governemnts. That is not the issue. The issue is when the lines between givernment and the business get blurred.

    If you are interested, this link lays some of it out.

    Fascism and corporatism

    Regards,
    Mark
    Mark Kramer
    www.thejazzmall.com


    formula to live by
    _______________________________________
    I am not sure I am really back. It just seems that I've passed through a wormhole.

  6. #6
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    OK. I read most of it. Any business entity that forms a strong alliance with any government is in my opinion a political whore. It is one thing to cooperate with governments to "get them off your back". It is quite another to go to bed with them. A business founded on true Aristotelian business values would consider the government to be a liability not an asset.
    What I have observed is that the bigger a business gets, the more like a government it behaves (think Microsoft). I think the healthiest economic system is one that is dominated by small businesses. Good healthy business competition is good for both business and the consumer. Large monopolies and conglomerates can be easily tempted into dishonesty and abuse of both its employees and the consumer. The same can be said about governments that are allowed to become too powerful. You know the old saying: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The cool thing about small businesses is twofold. First, if the consumer is unhappy with a certain business, they can simply do business with the competitor down the road (government regulations are not necessary). Secondly, if employees are unhappy with the business, they can find employment at the competitor down the road (labor unions are not necessary).
    I know many people are not fortunate enough to be able to do most of their business with and be employed by small companies. It is even more rare to own a small business. It is an ideal I strongly believe in and encourage all to strive for. I have to admit it is a little difficult to overlook the tremendous discounts available at Walmart for instance.
    How come I can take my yorkie into Neiman Marcus but I can't take her into Walmart?

  7. #7
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    >That wasn't particularly an open time. There were phenomenal business opportunities to be had with foreign fascist players in WWII. <

    ........and nowadays it seems to be with China.
    Doug Joyce
    Animix Productions

  8. #8
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    We have a prime example of such a political whore right here in Phoenix. Jerry Colangelo is the owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks. He used to own the Phoenix Suns. I think he has some interest in other sports teams as well. This joker tries to portray himself as some super-talented businessman, but in reality he is a corporate welfare recipient. All of his “business” ventures have been funded with taxpayer money, i.e. my money. He has, with the help of the government, robbed Arizona taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. I think he should be put in prison.
    How come I can take my yorkie into Neiman Marcus but I can't take her into Walmart?

  9. #9
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    I think the healthiest economic system is one that is dominated by small businesses.
    I share that belief, but have no systematic data to say whether it is true. The smartest largest corporations have learned that if you put a small group of talented people into their own trailer and let them self-govern, their productivity and creativity outshines results of formalized-clock punching approaches to management.

    Most small businesses have great ideas, but there are no resources - time, capital, energy and expertise - to manufacture, market, and distribute efficiently. Most of us in the Arts have experienced this conundrum. Every once in a while you get a great artist who is also a great businessman/ self promoter. It is rare to do both very very well.

    When a creative product emerges, it is the huge business machine that can manufacture, market and distribute it efficiently.

    Somewhere most "businesses" start with one person's observation of an unfulfilled need. Many of us see needs along the way, but we are not business people. That's because business people develop and understand the PROCESS of going from an initial observation to the fulfillment of the vision in practical terms.

    Thus in my view "business" is not the initial observation, nor any creative process which may have created a product or service. Having understood this, I choose not to be a businessman. To be a businessman, I'd have to be devoted to business. I am not.

    Sure, for some reason I am interested in the "grand prize", but I am more interested in the creative process which leads to unusual products.

    I am sure there were many people who had the idea for an AMAZON.com type website simultaneously. It was however the man who organized the efforts behind AMAZON so efficiently who grabbed the ring.

    Isn'lt the same true for Microsoft? Isn't WINDOWS a sophisticated rip-off of an early APPLE graphic design interface for the PC? But Gates and his friends were businessmen and grabbed the ring.

    Anyway, getting back to your point: a large business is one which has a great probability of losing its connection to its humble beginnings. Whenever that happens a monster is created.

    Regards,
    Mark
    Mark Kramer
    www.thejazzmall.com


    formula to live by
    _______________________________________
    I am not sure I am really back. It just seems that I've passed through a wormhole.

  10. #10
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    ........and nowadays it seems to be with China.
    I know.

    However, it didn't stop me from trying some of the STUDIO PROJECTS line, or shopping at WALMART. I am not alone.

    On the other hand, I heard that Toyota has brought 200,000 jobs to the USA. I am inclined to include TOYOTA on my goto list of next cars to buy.

    Regards,
    Mark
    Mark Kramer
    www.thejazzmall.com


    formula to live by
    _______________________________________
    I am not sure I am really back. It just seems that I've passed through a wormhole.

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