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Thread: Starting guitar project tomorrow

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Peru
    Posts
    171

    Starting guitar project tomorrow

    How about some help. I am starting a project tomorrow It is a project with 2 sisters singing around their guitar. I am planning on making it pretty much a guitar with vocal CD. The guitar parts are very good. I was wondering how you guys would go about micing the guitar since it is going to play such a big part in the recording. Here are the mics that I have. Not a great collection, but I will get there slowly but surely.

    AKG 1000
    AKG 3000
    Blue Bottle with B6 and B7
    Blue Kiwi
    Blue Baby bottle
    Shure KSM 47 I believe (been gathering dust here lately)

    I also have a few mics I use for TV
    lapels etc.
    AT 835 shotgun. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    By the way I have a Buzz 2.2 coming down in a couple of days. I am pretty excited seeing that the only preamp that I have now is a 737. Any of you guys have the buzz and what is your opinion of it? By the way I am getting it with Sowter transformers. I really look forward to hearing from you guys.
    Chris Gardner
    Recording Engineer
    Arequipa, Peru

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Peru
    Posts
    171
    Please help me out guys, I am really needing some help.
    Chris Gardner
    Recording Engineer
    Arequipa, Peru

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN, USA
    Posts
    27,246
    Chris,

    I am not familiar enough with any of those mics to even offer suggestions. Sorry.

    If you're doing a minimal group, like guitar and two vocals, try to get the guitar in stereo. If you have two similar mics, you could try an M-S pair. I had great luck with that when I was in the studio last month. I centered it around the highest frets on the neck and then moved it in until the balance of hi to lo was right. Maybe you could use your Blues and try that, if one of them will do bidirectional (figure 8).

    If they're singing and playing at the same time, the "lavelier inside the guitar" trick is a life saver. Doesn't always sound the best, but for isolation, it's hard to beat.
    Lynn Fuston
    3D Audio

    Making beautiful music SEEM easy since 1979.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Peru
    Posts
    171
    Thanks Lynn,

    1 of the mics that I own has a figure 8 pattern. I might give that a try. By the way I am waiting on a couple of Josephson mics that should be here on Friday. I am looking forward to getting a different flavor of mic.
    Chris Gardner
    Recording Engineer
    Arequipa, Peru

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Silicon Valley CA
    Posts
    114
    There are many ways to mic acoustic guitars but my favorite is using small matched condensers (Schoeps, DPA or Neumans) in an X/Y pattern with one pointed at the bridge and one at the 12th fret. I record in stereo but to separate mono channels so I can control the width. By using matched mics, you can really center the instrument within the soundfield and to me it sounds the most authentic. If you are using two different mics, you will get more of a double tracked sound which some people like although I prefer the former.

    If I were the engineer, I would first record a working track, then take about four keeper passes of each guitar part and then about four keeper takes of each vocal part so the you can edit later if you need to. Also remember: new strings on a clean fretboard are a must, check tuning every second or third take, a can of finger ease can reduce string talk (somewhat), constant temperature will help keep the guitar in tune, listen for breathing into the guitar mics.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    382
    It's a long thread, and now a PDF file, but it covers mic placements and mics used about mid-way thru. Well worth reading:
    http://www.kset.org/music/pub/ChatWithHarvey.pdf
    Eliott James (3D VIP Member)
    http://www.eliottjames.com
    Wateree Studio, Atlanta

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    443
    Originally posted by Chris Gardner:
    <STRONG>Not a great collection, but I will get there slowly but surely.

    AKG 1000
    AKG 3000
    Blue Bottle with B6 and B7
    Blue Kiwi
    Blue Baby bottle
    Shure KSM 47 I believe (been gathering dust here lately)
    </STRONG>
    I hope this is not too late to be of help...

    I wouldn't be too dissapointed with this collection if I were you. Feel free to trade that Bottle/B6/B7 for my U87 any time The thing that concerns me most is that you don't appear to have a pair of anything. Singing sisters are probably going to have a very similar timbre and would probably require the same mic. You might want to consider renting a pair of something or a second of something you already have. I don't know how feasable that is where you are, it isn't exactly Nashville.

    P.S. Chris, we just had a litter of beautiful yorkies!

    [ January 24, 2004: Message edited by: Toney Robinson ]
    How come I can take my yorkie into Neiman Marcus but I can't take her into Walmart?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Elm Tree, Ontario ,Canada
    Posts
    670
    Chris
    Like Lynn I don't know your mics so I can't help there. The Buzz will do you proud, although mine doesn't have the Sowter option so I'm again in the dark.
    I've found that my biggest problem doing vocals along with guitar is bleed, and it inevitably seems that what I want to correct/tweak, EQ wise, on the vocal has a negative effect on the guitar or visa versa.
    So I usually try to get as isolated a guitar track as possible (try the lav inside deal Lynn suggested) and then redo the vocals with that iso'd guitar track.
    Mic everything up because the blend of voices and guitar may be perfect but see if you can get either a line out of the guitar or the lav inside. If you have a problem recut the vocals to that guitar track and then recut the guitar to the mix of the guitar and vocal track and you end up with a clean vocal track and and a clean guitar track which can be tweaked without screwing up the other track.
    The other advantage is that I find the vocal is usually better when the player is not playing guitar and able to concentrate on the single performance. Also players who sit to play can be encouraged to stand to sing which I also find leads to a better performance.
    Also you may know this but seldom does a guitar sound good miced at the sound hole. Up around the twelve fret is a good starting point. Take care Logan

    [ January 24, 2004: Message edited by: Logan Murray ]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Peru
    Posts
    171
    Toney and Logan,

    Thanks for the replies. I was actually supposed to be recording but the other sister wasn't able to make it yet. Strike problems down here where the close the whole transportation system down by throwing rocks in the road and waiting along side the side of the road to throw one at passing cars. Exciting life needless to say. In other words, the recomendations did come right on time.

    There is no way to rent that level of equipment down here so I have to go with what I have. I just bought a pair of Josephson mics for the guitar, wow I love them. I plan on recording with 3 separate takes to help with my mic problems. Also, I wasn't able to get the Buzz, because it wasn't shipped in time so I had them go ahead and send the GR 2nv. They sound incredible and have made my studio sound a whole lot better. I will be buying the Buzz next. Thanks for the help.

    Right now I was planning on recording with the Josephson mics, one pointed at the area that unites the neck of the guitar and the body and then the other pointed at the end of the strings to give it some high end emphasis. Let me know what you guys think.
    Chris Gardner
    Recording Engineer
    Arequipa, Peru

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Peru
    Posts
    171
    Toney,

    I forgot to congratulate you on the Yorkies, all I can say is I expect to see more wild hour postings from you for the next 5 to 6 weeks. At least my rotties do not let me sleep well for that long. I guess that means that the studio hours can be longer than normal. Enjoy the pups, I hope they win the Westminster in a few years.
    Chris Gardner
    Recording Engineer
    Arequipa, Peru

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